Author Topic: REAL Multiple serversupport  (Read 10294 times)

bugmenot

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« on: March 14, 2007, 06:58:20 am »
I think AltBinz is great, but it would be sooo much better if it has a better support for multiple servers. Currently when a part isn't found on one server, it is kind of "deleted", anyway, these missed parts are not tried again by the other servers available.
This situation undermines the whole idea of having multiple servers, for instance one "main" server which has high speed, short retention and 90% completion and a fill server/thread with lower speed, high retention and/or high completion. Currently these can't complement each other, which would be great if this would be possible in the future.

To see an example of the feature in a program, try PowerFTD or pftd as it is also called.

Offline Hecks

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 07:49:17 am »
Doesn't this work for you with a primary & backup server configuration, as opposed to only setting up two prrimaries?  What you described is exactly how the former is supposed to work.

-Hecks

bugmenot

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 04:35:34 pm »
Well, not really, because when I add the extra lowquality servers as a backup to one of the primary's, it isn't used until the highquality primaryservers fail to find a part and the other way around, when I add a highquality primary as a backup to all the lowquality primary's, it doesn't work real good because I can only have 1 thread per highquality backup.

So the whole "primary" and "backup" construction is just too limiting, ideally it should be implemented that when a part isn't found by on of the servers, all the other try it and after that DON'T delete it, but leave it for manual retry. This last thing because sometimes some servers for some reason don't automatically find the part, but do find it when manually retried (maybe because of longer time-out timings).

bloggs_&_co

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 07:21:50 pm »
I also agree with bugmenots comments I find the problems caused by having a primary server with backup somewhat restrictive, all servers
need to be able to check for an article before anything is deleted,and yes you can stop parts deleting by adjusting the retry count, but I feel its a bit
like a sledgehammer approach to the problem. I can see why this feature is needed, because there is no manual save on the queued articles, only when the parts have been deleted will the article be saved, that's unless I,vet missed something.
Also it means you have to juggle with servers in order to maximise the download.
Currently due to its better server handling I am using BNR2 to pull articles were I need to maximise my download speed, the program works well in this area, this is on large articles, but using this program for small articles and too get all my NZB`s and editing them as needed to import into the other program. Wish I did not have to!

Offline Hecks

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Re: REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 02:41:33 am »
Quote from: "bugmenot"

This situation undermines the whole idea of having multiple servers, for instance one "main" server which has high speed, short retention and 90% completion and a fill server/thread with lower speed, high retention and/or high completion. Currently these can't complement each other,

I'm still not sure what you mean.  You want to  download atrticles from the fast 'main' server first, and if that fails, look for them on the slower 'fill' server.  This is how the primary/backup configuration works.

Quote
When I add the extra lowquality servers as a backup to one of the primary's, it isn't used until the highquality primaryservers fail to find a part

Isn't that what you meant by the slower one acting as a 'fill' server?  Am I missing something obvious?

-Hecks

bugmenot

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 10:21:43 pm »
You didn't miss anything obvious I guess, but as explained by bloggs&co, the current solution with primary and backupservers just isn't an ideal solution, in case of optimal downloadspeed, but also in the case of wanting to check the parts manually.

The best way to illustrate I guess is to check the program I mentioned before, PowerFTD, it can be downloaded here: http://www.kapfrank.nl/software/PowerFTD_09c3.zip

Offline meltcity

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2007, 05:57:22 am »
Not sure I understand you either!

The only ssue I have with the Primary/Backup server configuration is that it isn't possible to set a retention period for the primary server (in my case 3 days for my primary ISP's server), so I get 430 Article Not Found errors for every article on the primary server that is older than 3 days, and the download is slower. If alt.binz knew the retention of the primary server it wouldn't try to download expired articles.

bloggs_&_co

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2007, 08:16:30 pm »
I think the point that is being missed is, in an ideal world were you have one server
with high retention and a second server also with good retention and that's all you
wish the program to cater for then it will work fine.
But the other side of the coin is that there could be people who wish to use it on
servers that are not so reliable and you might have say 10 servers and get a bit
from this one a bit from that one etc.

Then as a multi server program its going to fall over a bit. and this is the point
I think that is being made, on good servers it will perform well and not so good
servers it performs somewhat poorer.

Offline Hecks

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2007, 01:43:53 am »
Still not clear about why - the primary/backup config works just as well in either scenario, IMHO.  But I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree about that one. :)

-Hecks

bloggs_&_co

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 06:48:59 pm »
Well that's a bit of a shame, this program was looking to be the bees knees for downloading
binaries, it had just about everything you could ask for but then I found that the server
selection was less then optimum when it came to getting the most out of the servers that
were available at that time,this resulted in endless loops trying the primary server each
time the retry clock got to the end of its countdown then picking up 1 segment from the
backup after first trying the primary (which did not have the article) dropping the backup
trying the primary then backup ad infinitum , still one day you might see the light! hi hi..
Perhaps someone will explain it better.  till then as you said we will just have to disagree. Pity about that.

Offline musiclover

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2007, 09:35:55 pm »
I know what you mean bloggs_&_co. I also used powerFTD till now and I like the server setup of that program better. But hey, when we are stuck with this setup. It must be.

For the rest Alt.Binz is a very good program. I am using it all the time.

Offline Hecks

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2007, 02:45:38 am »
So the problem seems to be that altbinz keeps checking the primary server for file parts, even if the whole archive is missing?  Perhaps this logic would work a bit better then:

1. Try to download eveything from the primary server until the end of the queue is reached.

2. If anything downloadable remains in the queue, try to download what's left from the backup server.

3. Repeat 2 for the remaining backup servers until the queue is empty or no more servers remain in the list.

4. If any files are still incomplete, download PAR2 blocks from the last server with a successful download.

5. Repair if needed & unrar.

-Hecks

bloggs_&_co

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2007, 10:07:28 pm »
Well yes as I said before you have to juggle with servers, and of course this would not be the
case if each server in your list could independently check for a part before informing the
operator that it does not exist and then allowing the parts downloaded to be saved then checking
to see if enough pars are avialable for repair. the whole object is to get the
computer to do all the donkey work and just enjoy the download that come from it. hi hi

Offline Hecks

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2007, 11:43:47 pm »
No, I meant it would be better if alt.binz followed that logic automatically.

-Hecks

Offline musiclover

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REAL Multiple serversupport
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 10:45:27 am »
Yes, that is how powerFTD works. In setup you mark the servers primary or backup and the outcome is as you discribe. It is than no longer necessary to make backup servers with each primary server.